So many times human resources is not at the table reason being, they don't have the information, they don't have good information to be at the table. And by that we, we have good information about the you know, EOC coding or who they report to and all that. But the question is, can they be a player for the future? And can they make a difference as we try to change these organizations to become more innovative, more productive, et cetera. https://www.solvecast.com/articles/detail/27869-3-steps-to-organizational-leadership-success